we NEED vray scatter [Archive] - VRAYforC4D Offical Support Forum

Tong

09-29-2008, 07:13 PM

we jhave such a thing since years in cinema 4d:-)

it is called maxon mograph.
does exactly the same, also with proxies.

no, you wrong stefan, it`s different, really different, the major thing in vrayscatter that it makes millions of proxys like one proxy object in render time, it gives ability use not millions of polygons with proxy, but trillions of proxys with billions of polygons, c4d mograph goes down, especially in viewport , from mine experience with it.

it`s really different with it. :roll:

Rich_Art

09-29-2008, 08:58 PM

How can we make Proxies with MoGraph....

Peace,
Rich_Art. :wink:

Tong

09-29-2008, 09:29 PM

make proxy, and use it with mograph, like simple c4d object, no difference, it just looks like c4d object in object manager.

stefan

09-30-2008, 10:16 AM

yes you can use mograph with proxy, also any other scatter tool

@tong,
it can be that cinema4d is not so fast in interface. that is sadly true and a thing maxon should look into for future i hope. i haven tbought the scatter tool yet for max, but guess will do as it looks nice.

but function vise the scatter tool is nothing else than mograph does.
it might be more efficient in saving only one proxy out of all. i guess i will also buy it for my max license cause it is nice.

but in theory you can also scatter trillions of polygons with mograph and proxy.
i just render a small demo- wood animation with at least 5.000.000.000 polygons of trees. not as much as the russion plugins makers but ok i think, and it was not too slow in c4d.

you can ask your rfiends of they portthier plugin to c4d:-)
but i fear they will also not able to make the interface faster than cinema4d can do it. c4d has its limits there.

mograph +proxy already pushes the limits very very far i guess;-)

cheers
stefan

okazaky

09-30-2008, 10:37 AM

By the way: will it be possible to assign different materials to proxy meshes and to scale them?

Tong

09-30-2008, 12:47 PM

By the way: will it be possible to assign different materials to proxy meshes and to scale them?

of course, just image forest with random trees (scaled, rotated etc...) from group of objects and different materials on it. ;-)

stefan

09-30-2008, 03:39 PM

"By the way: will it be possible to assign different materials to proxy meshes and to scale them?"

yes sure.

the 5000000000poly trees animation i mentioned above has each tree another color:-)

and they are scaled randomly with mograph tools. all from one vrmesh.

cheers
stefan

Rich_Art

09-30-2008, 10:14 PM

Sounds cool stefan. I need to check this.

Peace,
Rich_Art. :wink:

PS: I hope you feeling better by now. Marion told me that you where ill.
Here in holland there are a lot of people ill as well. Bad wheater causes this I guess. :)

3dkobi

10-01-2008, 10:15 AM

I thought that we don't have proxies yet, and will be available only at 1.1
Am I wrong ? Or do you mean proxies=xref ?

peace
kobi

Tong

10-01-2008, 10:48 AM

proxy in 1.1.
some people have 1.1
they called developers ;-)

okazaky

10-01-2008, 11:44 AM

reaktion

10-01-2008, 05:30 PM

i dont quite get it... :shock: how can i make a proxy?.... is it an instance object? is it an instance object made out of an xref...... and most of all.... how can i apply different mats to them.......... i know this is not the right forum to ask that, but cud u help me out guys.... :D

Tong

10-01-2008, 07:31 PM

how can i make a proxy?....
http://www.spot3d.com/vray/help/150SP1/tools_ply2vrmesh.htm
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/5436/vraymtlconvertorplugin1ek3.jpg

is it an instance object? is it an instance object made out of an xref......
no, "vrayinstance", but you can use it like c4d object in morgaph and etc

how can i apply different mats to them..........

just like other c4d objects
http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/8751/new3zv2.jpg

VrayProxy will be available in VrayC4D 1.1

artdude12

10-02-2008, 02:35 AM

This is a great solution....IF WE ALL HAD IT!
Please only show solutions that work with the current release.

1.1 does not exist!!!!!!!

3dkobi

10-02-2008, 10:23 AM

I don't get it too.....why show us something that wasn't released yet ......

peace
kobi

stefan

10-02-2008, 12:12 PM

1.1 does exist of course, i have it here;-)

it isn't yet published as we fix the last things. thats the way it is with software

cheers
stefan

3dkobi

10-02-2008, 12:20 PM

Stefan - I know that 1.1 exists, and that the last things are being fixed, and I don't care if it will take 2 days to release it or 2 months as long as it will be stable....I know those things take time.....

BUT - I don't see any reason to give here examples and explain things to users that doesn't have the new release...When it will be released, than we can open a thread about proxies and everything else...I think it's pretty usless to discuss those things now....

just my point of view....

peace
kobi

stefan

10-02-2008, 12:33 PM

yes you are right of course, tong could wait a bit with his posts...thats counterproductive and makes no one happy.(tong please wait a bit;-)

but i reacted to the post 1.1 does not exist, that is something different.

cheers
stefan

artdude12

10-02-2008, 12:34 PM

Stephan,
I know for you and the beta testers 1.1 does exist.
For the rest of us, until it is released, 1.1 does not exist.
Showing and telling of features and solutions of an unreleased
product is not helping.
I can see from some of the renders that you have shown, that 1.1 (at that time) was at RC5. So it has to be pretty darn close to finish and is use-able.
Which leads me to my next question. If 1.1 is that close to finish, why not open the beta testing to the paying users?

Tong

10-02-2008, 01:15 PM

Showing and telling of features and solutions of an unreleased
product is not helping.

wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong because contra to this is show NOTHING at ALL, is this will make you happy?

just mine imho.

3dkobi

10-02-2008, 01:20 PM

Actually Tong - yes, it will make me happy..It's also maxon approach, and I think it's for the best for everybody - developers, and users...

but that's only me....

peace
kobi

stefan

10-02-2008, 01:26 PM

tong we must respect that some maxon users dont like info in advance. strange to me too, but true it seems. the way it is done in chaosgroup forums seem not to be wished here.

a public beta is not managable, you would not be happy. only very professional studios want to deal with commandline etc, stuff.

also vray1.0876 is a very good version you have, so you can very good use this with v10 for now i guess.

cheers
stefan

3dkobi

10-02-2008, 01:43 PM

Maybe you can have a poll about how many wants info ahead and how many don't...

for me, it doesn't help to know that in "x" time i'll have "y" option in vray (proxies, ect.), becuase if I have to deal with a problem on a project for a client, I have to deal with it in the tools I have now, and not on something that I don't know when will be released...
I can't tell the cliant: "listen, I can't do what you want now, but in the future I will be able to do it"....the way to go is solve the problems with what we have, anything that comes in the future is a bless....

peace
kobi

artdude12

10-02-2008, 01:44 PM

Not Wrong!!!!
Most software developers have their beta testers sign a non-disclosure agreement, which means don't show, don't tell to the users outside the
beta team. Why? To keep me and the other cranky users from asking:
"Are we there yet?, are we there yet?, are we there yet?......
By showing unfinished software you are putting ALOT of pressure on the
developers, raising the expectations of the users, because they are used to only seeing previews for a soon-to-be-released product.

I think your time would be better spent getting THIS website more organized.

Tong, the site you put together is wonderful and has been a great help to me. For this site, why not get all those great renders that are buried in the gallery section up front to the examples page. Stephan, where are those videos you promised (barking dog and all)?
There is so much good information buried on this site. There's got to be a better way to organize it.

afternooncoffeeboy

10-02-2008, 01:45 PM

poll doesnt make sense...most ppl voted for smaller and faster updates and we got one update in one year :roll:

3dkobi

10-02-2008, 01:49 PM

And how many updates you've got from maxon the last year ?

you can't have an update each month.....

peace
kobi

ichi.one

10-02-2008, 01:59 PM

tong we must respect that some maxon users dont like info in advance. strange to me too, but true it seems. the way it is done in chaosgroup forums seem not to be wished here.

Stefan it's not matter that we (this forum) don't like some info in advance
or love to see new features
it's matter of frustration, knowing something is fixed in a upcoming release but you can't have it yet (and of course the delay ain't helping it)

ex. last night i had to start a render at 10000pxl width
i first did a split in 3sections, it crashed (out of memory) on the second frame
did a split in 4 sections crashed on the last few buckets of the 3rd frame
okay a split in 5 pieces and check in the middle of the night with sleepy eyes if everything is still running, it worked and i don't mind putting things together in photoshop

BUT You can imagine (i hope) that I screamed at one point
"Goddamn give me that 1,1 64bit release, now !" :?
So knowing what features are upcoming can also give a lot frustration
when the release gets delayed a few times

plus because most people (inc. me) don't have any idea how developing
software works / what it takes to make this bridge
we start to wander what are they doing ?
why does this take so long to fix those few bugs they talked about ?

i hope you understand this, keep doing what you have to do
to make 1,1 a great release
i'm just trying to explain how it feels and why the forum reacts in this way

all the best, pete

stefan

10-02-2008, 03:56 PM

@afternooncoffeeboy:

you did get 9(!) updates within a year!!! ;-)

the 1.1 updates is a very deep one, so no small possible. when we deal with only small things there will be more small, when big things have to be done there will be more time in between, thats normal.

i asked already the users in general forum. decission came out there will be a vray lab section in future and there we show things for those interested. these will be showed without any tag of when it will come etc.

the rest of forum will be clean of any news from forthcoming things, to avoid "pain" for some you the users;-)

cheers
stefan

@artdude12: artdude: i alone decide what is shown or not. so please leave tong in peace, he shows because i allowed him. the system will change only after 1.1. then you will get no info anymore as you wished.

@ichi, yes i understand, but still i cannot change it and i thought we are all grown up persons who can wait the time things need...

ichi.one

10-02-2008, 04:05 PM

i thought we are all grown up persons

grown ups are the worst, you better off with kids
much easier to please :wink:
vray for kids how about that ? :P
it only has to be an 8-bit version

3dkobi

10-02-2008, 04:09 PM

That's a great idea....and would only render toys....:)

peace
kobi

stefan

10-02-2008, 05:28 PM

"kids.... much easier to please"

hehe, are you sure?
when i think of my to little boys, 2 and 4 years,... man they are demanding. in comparence the vray users here are silent lamps ;-)

my 4 year old already tells me, "no papa this is not looking right etc" when i have draw him something like an dinosaur or ship (and he wants me all time something to draw:-)

cheers
stefan

nutriman

10-02-2008, 05:31 PM

my 4 year old already tells me, "no papa this is not looking right etc" when i have draw him something like an dinosaur or ship

....soooo, that's why you have developed the vray bridge! :D

reaktion

10-02-2008, 05:52 PM

hehehe i remember when i was a little kid... i cried for hours so my dad could buy me a new toy... ended up playing with the box it came in for days... my dad is still angry about that! hahahahaha :lol:

so... tong, stefan, beta team: in 1.1 release we will be able to do the simple work vray scatter does? weeeeeeee :P i mean, it looks really user/RAM friendly in comparison to MoGraph (which i've used and found really heavy on the editor and in rendertimes), i know thats a maxon issue, but... what if we cud bridge over maxon to avoid that problem? dont even hit on the speed bump, cuz you jumped over it already. will it be possible............ :roll:

cheers and thanks in advance for making 1.1 a solid release. cant wait til its done!!!

stefan

10-02-2008, 06:35 PM

reaktion, i used mograph for it, i love it.
mograph is very good for scattering and the max scatter tools does pretty the similar scattering. only it extra deals special with proxy.

the vrayforc4d proxies also work with mograph which is a great tool. of course it also works with paint on surface and other scatter plugins.

cheers
stefan

reaktion

10-03-2008, 12:14 AM

yeah stefan, one thing i found really useful is the scatter with image tool. i often get the landscaping plans for the project and it takes a long time to fake the vegetation it in PS....
if mograph does that i haven't tried it that deep :oops: ... will do asap

Tong

10-03-2008, 08:53 AM

sorry stefan, if they want it - no info, they will get it :wink:

reaktion you can also use Mogrpah like SurfacePainter with "Add points" for polygons. :wink: or you can use http://www.remotion4d.net/downloads_d2.php?type=free RESelector for make thouse points

maya69

10-03-2008, 09:10 AM

surface painter is really great

but is not the same of mograph

you can use dpit with transplant

the probleme of mograph is very expansive (and powerfull) if you compare dpit or ditools

best regard

phil

BerTiN03

10-04-2008, 08:22 AM

mmhh.. it's hard to compare Mograph to dpit or something like this.. Painting objects on sur face is 0.0001% of Mograph possibilities.. Mograph is another world (that I really want to explore).

But yes, you can use it for that...

reaktion

10-14-2008, 11:00 PM

hey guys, just found this script on 3dfluff.com that seems to do what vray scatter does.... i havent tried it yet. heres the link: http://forum.3dfluff.com/showthread.php?t=57

hope it works. ill put it to the test ASAP

cheers!

BerTiN03

10-15-2008, 11:11 AM

Thanks a lot Reaktion !

machmirdenlukas

10-15-2008, 11:15 AM

thanks reaktion!
does this script work for anybody in r11? not for meee :?

STRAT

10-15-2008, 11:23 AM

couldn't get Per's script to work

mastersplinter

10-27-2008, 11:03 PM

pretty cool stuff... how many polygons will this be able to handle? i'm working with a 6 billion polygon model in vue 6. i hate the render engine though. takes me days to get the settings absolutely perfect for the most realistic rendering.

eh... wish i could combine v-ray c4d and vue into one neat package. that would be my dream. :shock: