color bleed

[scanmead]

Maybe everyone else has already discovered this, but it's new for me.

Under GI settings, reducing the Saturation from the default 1 to .6 seems to lessen this problem. Not that it's been common in scenes, but some reds and yellows misbehave. It also reduces the need to set the white balance in the camera.

[glass.use]

i tried this on more than one scene but it seem that theres no problem
please put 2 images of the renders you got to see the difference.

-i recommend photoshop for after render editing till it fixed if it's a bug :shock:

[scanmead]

I haven't seen much of a problem either. I deliberately set up a simple scene to cause color bleed, then set about getting rid of it.

The default settings render: note the red bleeding on to the walls and yellow cube, and the ceiling picking up the floor color.

http://www.scanmead.com/temp/default.jpg

Next, setting the White Balance in the Camera. The overall bleed is still there.

http://www.scanmead.com/temp/saturation.jpg

Next, setting the Saturation under the GI settings to .6. All color bleed is gone. Rather a sterile look, IMHO, but no bleed.

http://www.scanmead.com/temp/white_balance.jpg

From that point, only a little adjusting of the White Balance and Saturation to get something with a little more life in it would be needed.

[scanmead]

Well, edit that. Not *all* color bleed is gone, but rather *most* color bleed is gone.

I'm just having too much fun exploring VRay. :P

[nycL45]

+1 :D

[glass.use]

maybe because the low render settings? or u make it high

[eMeL-ViZ]

I'm just having too much fun exploring VRay. :P

Sorry, but not me. Not anymore with this problem. I have paid 804 €uros for this. Paid all this money to achieve absolutely unrealistic results. In one of my Scenes I have a Room with a laminat Floor, yellowish Walls and a White Ceiling. First of all, the ceiling is Yellow. Where in Reality do we have this? I have never seen anything like this. At next There is the same Scene with Orange Sofas. On the Ceiling above the Sofas there is a Reddish tint. I also never have seen this in reality. The White balance messed up the complete Scene. After adding the White balance the Ceiling looked blueish. Another unrealistic and undesired result. What after reducing the Saturation? The whole Rendering looks flat. Not only flat, it looks like a bad painting. Something like 1989. There are no tutorials or anything for this problem. The Tutorials I have found are for Studio MAX only. In Studio MAX you have the Material wrapper and this makes life easier. Questions about the color bleeding aren't answered in this forum till now.

Photoshop? No. I want to solve this problem within my Rendering not in Postprocess. Work on these things in Postprocess is cheating. I don't know what to do to solve the Colour Bleeding Problem but till now everything failed.

Via Material Properties? Which one? I have read more than once to solve this problem within the Shader. What no one tells is, in which of these 11 Layers do you influence this effect?

I don't know but all this is really hard.

Bye,
Moe

[glass.use]

use high quality please. make everything default, try it and tell us what happens or if it still exsist
:wink:

vray is working probably ,, i guess

[eMeL-ViZ]

Used High Quality. It was a little bit more satisfiying. But only a little bit. After setting the Color Mapping to default my Ceiling was totaly overlit. Like it was light emitting. I have absolutely no light Sources except the Sun+Sky System from Vray.

And something to Scenmead :

Your second Rendering, the one with the activated White Balance, looks okay. A little bit of Colour bleeding is okay. As long as it not too much. How do you define or find the right Colour for the White Balance?

Bye,
Moe

[glass.use]

can you post a scene ?

[Tong]

--

[eMeL-ViZ]

Here is the Scene. I had to change the Furniture because the ones I used originally were bought and I don't know if I would infringe any Copyright things by giving them away. This is a little bit difficult here in Germany. The problem is, that in this Scene, when I have rendered it the Problem was not so big. Why it is there in one Scene and away in the next one? It is the same Scene with the difference of the Furnitures Shape. What if I can not take care of the Furniture I am using?

http://rapidshare.com/files/62076063/MySimpleTest-03.rar.html

I must say I don't understand vRay in every aspect. I am a little bit disappointed.

Bye,
Moe

[edub]

I must say I don't understand vRay in every aspect. I am a little bit disappointed.


Well, I'd say don't get discouraged. I'm also a little baffled in regards to all the settings. I've spent a lot of time trying to understand what I'm actually doing when I change a setting, and it's really hard.

There's definitely a steep learning curve to Vray, if you've never used anything like it before. The fact that there's no complete documentation isn't helping in that regard either, and although there's a wealth of Max related literature, there's only so far that interpolating data from there can go.

To you point about saturation, that is for me also the hardest thing to figure out - to the point of frustration.

I was actually looking through this forum, as well as the Chaosgroup forum, for a discuusion on this topic, but couldn't really find what I was looking for. Perhaps we can start a discussion here, and try to get to the bottom of it?

I took a look at your file, but upon opening it you sun seems to be below the horizon and is not not illuminating the space. This happened to me in someone else's file as well - what's going on with that? Is it because we are using different versions of Vray or C4D?

The parameters for the sun are:

Lat: 51deg 0' 0" N
Long: 7deg 0' 0" E
dist: 1500
time: 15:0:0
10 oct 2007
interpolate time:check
interpolate date:un-check
set light color:check

Can you tell me if that's what you set it to also?

[eMeL-ViZ]

Yes these are the setings of my Sun. On my System the Sun is above the Horizon. It's y Value is +713,825 cm. Iam using vRayforC4D 1.05. Made the latest update available. I really don't know why it doesn't illuminate your Scene. Coould there be a problem with our Locations? You are in San Francisco(?) I am in Germany. I have a similar problem in C4D when I set my Sun to a Geo Location in Los Angeles for example. In that case my Sun does not illuminate my Scenes. Maybe a Maxon Problem. Didn't find any answer to this. The Lat Long Coordinates are the ones of the Town I am living in.

Bye,
Moe

P.S.: Would be great to start a discussio nhere to find solutions for this Problem

[scanmead]

Something is odd with the Cinema Sun object. I have to ignore actual times and set it visually, because it's seems 180 degrees backward according to the "clock". Having noted some similar backwardness in other apps, it must be a setting on my system.

About setting the White Balance, I'm afraid my method is very un-technical. Render, take into PSP (loads fast), use the color dropper on a part that I think should be white, and copy the RGB numbers into the White Balance setting. If there is no white in the scene, I drop in a Plane object with a white texture.

Documentation is a bit sketchy right now, being a brand-new plugin and still developing rapidly. It's like exploring a new planet, which is why I'm getting nothing done: too many settings to fiddle with. :)

Just take deep breaths, and hang in there. It's hard to go from a render engine where you need to fuss with every render and material setting, to one that does its best work with as little tweaking as possible. I do like AR for a lot of reasons, but VRay is amazing in its responsiveness. And you're choosing very hard things, which is good. Yellowish wood floors are always hard to control. Lick this, and the going will be 100% easier.

[/i]

[eMeL-ViZ]

Yes, the White Plane thing I have tried. I used a white Sphere with 255, 255, 255 white. I think the result should be the same as using a plane. I also know that the Documentation is promised by Stefan. For my floor I used this one because I had to use this floor earlier in Projects. My problem is, as long as I can Choose which Floor to use I won't use this one. It is not always possible to choose. vRay is Great indeed. When I say I am disappointed then I don't mean I don't like it. :wink: I love it. It is a great step for all of us. Especially with its Speed. But harder to learn than I have expected.

Bye,

Moe

[edub]

well, the sun issue is freaking me out.

I was searching the net about color bleeding and found this tutorial for max:

http://www.tutorialized.com/view/tutorial/Vray-Color-Bleeding/23433

It seems there's something called VrayOverideMtl. in Max that can be used to solve this. Is there any chance of having something similar for C4D?

edit:

another example of VrayOverideMtl:

http://www.spot3d.com/vray/help/150R1/examples_vray_overridemtl.htm

[nycL45]

Just to confirm what edub posted, the sun is under the model posted by eMel-Viz when first opened. Checking to see if it is wired backwards, switching the latitude, set to 51:00:00N, to S or south and the camera barely moves. Likewise with the longitude setting.

[eMeL-ViZ]

This is in some way, not exactly, comparable to the Illumination part of the C4D Material (when you have AR). It works nearly the Same way and would make life a lot easier. Some would say that this is "cheating" or "old way of thinking", but it would be great for migration from AR to vRayforC4D. Not only for migration. Think of a Project later when time is a luxury, in this case it would be good to have something like this. With time everyone of us will become a little bit more familiar with this great Shading System, but I don't think that anyone would say no to a Shader like this. I hope that Renato, Daniele or Stefan reads this. That would be, in many ways, a great addition to this Renderer.

@nycl : I have seen this before. It is the same as I try to locate a Scene in Miami or Los Angeles. Everything within Europe works fine for me. I can't imagine why this happens.

Bye,
Moe

[nycL45]

The VRay OverrideMtl articles are very interesting. I am sure the Team has that one on their list.

@Moe, "It is the same as I try to locate a Scene in Miami or Los Angeles. Everything within Europe works fine for me. I can't imagine why this happens. " I think what you are saying is that when you open this same file, the sun is in the correct location. Yes? If so, wow! That is strange. Being v1.0x is the "shakedown" cruise there is much to be discovered and flushed out.

[eMeL-ViZ]

Yes nycl. When I open the same scene the Sun is indeed in the right Position. Exactly where it should be. So on the other hand, when I load down a Scene that someone in Chicago made, the Sun is on the wrong side when I open the Scene. I know of this Problem since years. I don't think that this is a vRay Problem. It has to be based in Maxon. I encountered this before, even long before vRay. Most of the times it is even not possible for me (living in Germany) to visualize a Scene with Location in USA, or South Africa or whereever. Really weird.

[eMeL-ViZ]

Back to our Original Problem I have tried something.

First of all I tried something Scanmead wrote. I made a Sphere and gave it a pure white vRay Material. rgb - 255, 255, 255. I put that Sphere in a corner of the Room directly under the Ceiling. I made my Rendering with default Values and saw the "thing" that came out. I made a Screenshot and and Imported into PhotoFiltre. Took the Colour of the Sphere with the Pipette tool and inserted these values for rgb into the according fields in the White Balance. Rendered it again with High Quality Preset. To increase it more I increased the Hemispheric Subdivisions in the Irradiance Map Tab to 200 and increased the Interpolated Samples to 60. In the LightCache Tab I increased the Sample Size (Screen) to 0.01. Changed nothing else and Rendered it. Great Result. But for time saving render the LightCache and the IrradianceMap small so you can use the saved Data in a bigger finalrender.

Hope it helps,
Moe

[scanmead]

I'm glad something I said sparked an idea and got things moving. :)

I've been doing like Fluffy and Stefan mentioned, and using 225,225,225 for my white, though.

[Laurent]

For this sort of problem the quick fix I'm using is too duplicate the objects I'm having too strong bleeding from, and via the vray compositing tag, have the invisible duplicate bleed a "tuned" color, and remove the visible objects from the GI visibility, not as elegant as a saturation setting per material, but it works.

[stefan]

hi eMeL-ViZ,

i dont relly get what your problem is to be honest, but please try to check following things:

use always correct scale 1:1,
make sure your materials and textures are right. a white wall in reality is never 255,255,255 p.e
use colormapping,
always do the light before you do the materials(this is for all renderengines)

vray is one of the most powerfully and high quality engine out there. if you get unrealistic images it is really not vrays fault, but maybe because you are new to it. give it a bit time to learn and get into it. you will see it make great fun and you will get supererb images. a bit of colorbleeding is realistic by the way. if you have too much your GI settings are too low or your colors are unatural saturated.

i am on the produceing of the videos that i think will also help most users to understand. vray definity needs other methods than AR. the cheating leads to very unreaistic results. also i suggest to try to use more real worls approaches. more like a photographer.

cheers
stefan

[eMeL-ViZ]

Hi Stefan,

I am working in cm's (I never worked in any other unit), I know that a white wall will never be 255, 255, 255, I am always using the Colormapping (at least the Bright Multiplier). Midifying the Dark Multiplier leaded to unwanted and bad results more than one time. Maybe i have to think about the order in which I make the Materials and the Lightning (Sometimes I am making the Lightning after the Materials). You are right when you say that the GI Settings have to be higher to decrease the Saturation. This is something I found out lately. I don't understing this completely but however. My Problem was, that there was not a little bit of Colorbleeding, there was really too much. I had a Orange Couch in my Room and the Part of the Ceiling that was above this Couch was nearly completely Orange. That is not Realistic. Like I wrote some posts ago in this Thread, this problem is mostly solved. One of my other Problems, which is my rare knowledge of vRay, is the usage of the Arroway Textures. I am not completely familiar with integrating them into vRay.

By the way, it makes fun to learn using it. Sometimes it is also frustrating as it is funny. I have to disagree in one point. The Material chapter in the manual that we have at this time is not satisfying. I know that this is a WIP Manual at this time so i won't take this as a real problem. I will simply wait for the final Handbook. Also i will wait for the Video Tutorials.

Don't understand me wrong. I have a great Respect of you, your Team and the great job all of you have done. I know what vRay means for all of us, but sometimes it is really hard. Especially when you are so new to a brand new PlugIn.

Thanks,

Moe

[Rich_Art]

Yeah I agree. Vray is great but we al need to learn how to drive this limo. :)

Peace,
Rich_Art. :wink:

[stefan]

yes, it is more a ferrari, so a bit more difficualt to drive;-)

cheers
stefan

[scanmead]

I don't know if this is right, or will be of any help, but after re-rendering everything I can scrounge up, this seems to work best for me.

Set up everything for a VRay render. Leave the Sun (or whatever) at a Multiplier of 1, take a stab at the F-stop, Shutter speed and Film ISO. When those are close to the look you want, set the White Balance, and tweak the Camera settings. After that, adjust the Color Mapping for more or less contrast. From that point on, textures are adjusted to fit the lighting.

This, of course, could be completely backward, but it seems to avoid headaches for me.

[glass.use]

aha just saw the different in a very red floor and i tried it in vray and got the bleed that example was obvious. :lol: < stupid me
and fixed it with Saturation 0.2 or 0
but is that a good way to fix the bleeding problem? or make it darker

[stefan]

well i can hardly tell exactly what you do.
when there are unrealistic results in vray it is mostly the user/beginner, i know that my self from my learning. it was hard some days or even weeks, and i also still learn....

often it is a wrong light/texture balance, so yes making the light before the materials is very much recommended, in all renderengines, otherwise one "wrong" materials can lead to very bad overall images.

i know learning of a new engine is hard the first time, thats why we want to make as much materials for learning as possible.i hope we can release the first this week. more to come later. all free of course for registered users.
the material repository hopefully can start soon too...

cheers
stefan

[eMeL-ViZ]

The f-stop, Shutter and ISO are a mystery for me. Which does what? Everytime I think that I adjusted one of them right another one of them messes everything up. I will not work without the Pysical Camera, that is sure. I have waited too long for a Physical Camera in 3D Software. Do I have to buy a Expensive Camera now only to understand vRay better? The Saturation trick is great but I personally don't like it. It is true that there has to be a little bit of Bleeding. I even don't see any difference in Saturation between 0,25 and 0,5. Both look the same for me.

Bye,
Moe

P.S.: Stefan, you said that in the start material package will be some Arroway Materials. Is this still the case? If yes at least one Laminat Floor would be great.

[nycL45]

Shutter or aperture speed (1/xsec, such as 1/30, 1/60 for indoors and 1/125, 1/500, etc. for outdoors, most common but can be full seconds and even minutes for indoor and night photography) = speed or time lens stays open.

Fstop (aperture setting) = how "open" the lens is to let light in such as f1.2, wide open, to f22, smallest opening are the most common settings.

ISO = light sensitivity of film (</=100, bright conditions, >/=400, low light and more grain). Common print film ISO: 100, 200, 400.

Mix these up for best light, dof, etc. in your rendering.

This will help with the camera terminology and functions:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-number

http://www.spot3d.com/vray/help/150R1/examples_vrayphysicalcamera.htm

http://photonotes.org/dictionary/

[Tong]

here is cool and simple explanation
http://www.nightdivers.com/Herd/Jim-Church-Cows1.pdf


and some math
http://cmc.ihmc.us/papers/cmc2004-256.pdf

[stefan]

yes, the arroway textures are in...
cheers
stefan

[Tong]

P.S.: Stefan, you said that in the start material package will be some Arroway Materials. Is this still the case? If yes at least one Laminat Floor would be great.

you can download free Arroway tex here
http://www.asgvis.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=46&func=select&id=1

[stefan]

a free laminat floor you find already in the material repository section here

cheers
stefan

[eMeL-ViZ]

Thanks for the links, I will have look at them maybe they'll help. I know the free Arroway Textures. I worked with them but didn't like the results. The bought ones are much better. I am using the Laminat from this Repository sometimes. Why I want a Laminat from Arroway is as an Example. Mainly to see which bitmap to put in which part of the vRay Shader. As I sad I am getting into the vRay BRDF so a little help through some Examples would be great. Learning by seeing and doing.

Bye,
Moe

[stefan]

the color texture comes in diffuse

the specular or glossy map comes in first tex slot of specular reflection

the bump in bump map

thats it basicly, you then can adjust the intensity, reflectivity and lightness of the textures.
best you use a c4d filtershader in the diffuse channel

cheers
stefan

[scanmead]

The textures would be very much welcome! That's what's really hanging me up right now: organic things like wood and leather. I'm picky, picky, picky about wood.

I used to dabble in photography in the stone age with a 35mm. Funny, the settings I liked back then are pretty much what I'm using in VRay.

Start with a Film ISO of 400, and Shutter speed of 100, and work up or down from there. As with the old Nikon, I touch the F-Stop only when I can't avoid it: a very slight adjustment goes a long way.

It quickly became apparent that leaving VRay lights alone gives me the best results. VRay is much smarter than me. ;)

[eMeL-ViZ]

the color texture comes in diffuse

the specular or glossy map comes in first tex slot of specular reflection

the bump in bump map

thats it basicly, you then can adjust the intensity, reflectivity and lightness of the textures.
best you use a c4d filtershader in the diffuse channel

cheers
stefan

That's all? This is easier than I thought. I tried this already but was confused because of the Glosiness and Reflectivits maps.

[rhodesy]

I think adjusting the recieve and generate GI in the material would help us out loads. For it can be quite hard to judge a material in the mat editor as it seems to get blown out as soon as you put it in sunlight and GI is turned on so im having to make some of my materials really dark in the mat editor just to get them to look right and not over exposed in the sun. I know I can adjust my camera but if most of the scene looks good its best to adjust the few problem materials in the scene. It think asphalt/tarmac it quite hard to get black enough for example. Also my red brick can go a bit too light/pink in the light. You can get around this by darkening up these mats but then they don't look anything like how they come out when your looking at the material settings. I think the recieve GI amount slider would make this much easier to deal with.

I hope this can be implimented but i get the feeling the vrayforc4d team doesn't think that we should need it. Interesting to hear that Max has some sort of feature that handles this though so there is some hope there.

But Vray is great and im far from dissapointed as others seem to be in this thread!

[stefan]

rhodesy that would completly mess up the calibrated system and all of the vray quality would be more or less lost....

really it is not so hard to make good images in vray. in contrary i never had a engine that makes it so easy. it need some time to leran though, thats true.

cheers
stefan

[rhodesy]

I hear what you say about the overall calibration and that might cause knock on effects. But often my materials are so dark in my material manager I can hardly make them out - this is needed to get them dark enough in the render. my lighting etc.

Im certainly not wanting to knock vray and i agree that it is an excellent and intuative renderer so please don't misunderstand. I have been getting much much better renders than i have done with AR and it's been surprisingly easy :D its just a bit crazy sometimes for me when trying to get the right exposure for materials when they are in sunlight thats all not that im not getting the images i want.

[stefan]

yes if you make the materials correct, best a la "lwf" with gamma 0.4545 the material will look dark in preview.

but then i renders very nice and correct, you are on the right path...:-)

we might ,look into the preview scene, maybe this is not optimal yet. it is the maxon presets.

the thing is that you want your textures only lit once. so the texture itself shoud be rather dark, without "prelight" in itself, it gets light through the scene then.

i guess this will be in the videos too then...
cheers
stefan

[rhodesy]

Ah that makes sense Stefan - especially the whole lighting twices point (real light from texture photo and virtual light). However some of my problems were shader based but i guess this might improve if the preview improves/changes. This LWF is a bit of an enigma for me i have read a tiny bit on it but its clear it a big topic i need to absorb. Is this the magical figure (0.4545) we are supposed to put into our material gamma via the layer shader? or is it for something else?

[stefan]

well what i do is making the materials for texture with a filter shader to 0.4545. the rest i do with colormapping.

there are several parts and ways of lwf, all i think i havetnunderstand my self, and i amalsonot sure all are correct.

the 0.4545 for texures seeems resonable for me at least...:-)
cheers
stefan

[Laurent]

I stefan,
the difference between the preview and rendered material is a problem for me, when all materials are so dark, the only way to find something is looking for it by name, witch defeats the material preview. I ended up over compensating by under exposing the physical camera, I might be going the wrong way and will pay the price by creating new problem for myself.

[stefan]

no you should make the material right (means darker than you expect), not change the scene or underexpose it. just use the lights as they are in reality and adjust the camera to it.

then as second step make the materials so they render fine in the scene.

alsoways do light before materials, that is true for any renderengine.

cheers
stefan

[Emre]

Hi Emel-viz,

I totally agree with you, that this engine has to have some "out-of-the-box" acceptable results for especially architects.

But in this case, being a total noob myself, I took the opportunity of making a quick test with your scene.

this is your scene's render - untouched.

http://lh4.google.com/ahmetemre/RxkDPnpshrI/AAAAAAAAAGw/AexFM9Pp4P8/s800/yours.jpg

This is my little tweak. Didn't touch the saturation, just played with phy. camera settings, and a little color-mapping. (also medium gi preset with a little more hemis. rays, also dropped LC passes to 2 due to my processor.)

http://lh4.google.com/ahmetemre/RxkDPnpshsI/AAAAAAAAAG4/nq0ZFzW117o/s800/mine.jpg

It seems the over-bleeding is cured, but the scene is desaturated, even if I didn't touch the saturation setting. There alot of different settings to get what we want in vray, and different methods.

here is the file http://rapidshare.com/files/63741425/MySimpleTest-04.rar

I am sure you can do better than I do if you play with this a bit more.

Best of luck

Emre

[stefan]

i dont know what you do but i open a room here apply real world light, apply good material set colormapping and render....and it is fine.

basicly also in realworld a room looks totally different if you have a orange floor or a creme white one( we are just not used to it on classic CG, as photographer you know this).

your example is a bit to extreme maybe, i would say either your materials or your light is not setup normally. i will look into your file...

vray makes the fastest very easy rendering for me out of the box i must really say- it is one of the very best engiens around...

cheers
stefan

p.s as i say in the manual, colormapping should be used all time. i give there simple starters to make it easy for beginners. colormapping of cours controls the saturation, thats normal as it should be. thats why it is called colormapping;-)
linear colormapping as most old engines used it is unnatural.

[stefan]

hi emre,


looked into your file, basicly all looks correct, you have very intense yellow on the wall (33%saturation) and 87% for the sofa orange, so for real world that are quite intensive colors.
so the color distribution is correct.

i would adjust the colormapping to the standard setting i gave in the manual .
exponential 3.8/1,75 and a gamma of 0.8.

cheers
stefan

[eMeL-ViZ]

Hi there,

the colours are taken from a Alpina Color Chart. I am always working with these. I open them in a 2D Software and picking the desired colour. These values I am inserting into vRay. Maybe the Saturation is really a little bit extreme, but when I lower it the colour changes extremely. Do you have a suggestion which Saturation value is a good one? I am working with the Extended Color Table. What about the "V"? Should I change this also? I have set the Texture for the Floor into a Filter Layer and changed the Gamma to 0,455 as you suggested. In the Material preview they looked too dark, but in the Renderings they look really great. What about the Colours for the walls? Should I put them into a Filter Layer also? Finally I have applied the Colour Mapping you mentioned. Also this works great. The Physical Camera Settings are still something I have to figure out completely. I am on it.

Thanks,

Moe

P.S.: I see some light at the end of the tunnel. :wink:

[stefan]

real world materials normally go from 1% until a max of 70%. it is true that pure colors of catalogies have more, but seldom when painted on objects.

80% is possible of course, but it is an intesive color. a wall with 30% yellow is very yellow. so all that is relative to our expectations of course too.

next thing is to compensate that a material is only emissing less than 100% light( it cannot give more light than it gets) multiply your color or material to a gray or back base. some pros use a gamma value of 0.4545 for all(inverted 2.2 mnmonitorgamma) to get rid of the wrong monitorgamma we all have.

if you follow all that the images will be most accurate, your scene is rather good already with very strong colors,

i guess adjusting the materials that they are not over 100%
(
diffuse+specular+reflection etc). in real world materials dont give 100% light off , only mirrors. so actually a material reflects less light than it gets, sonething like 60-80% i would say. that means you have to make it quite darker one would expect, as said make this with gamme(filtershader) and or multiplier...

cheers
stefan

[scanmead]

Copied all that to notes, Stefan! Having done a lot of redecorating, "the paint always dries lighter than it looks" comes to mind. When you think about it, it's a very thin coat or two over a (usually) white surface. Fabric dyes are a little more intense, but never 100% the color of the dye. Now I see why I always had to run a Desat in postwork. ;)

Painting my kitchen a buttery yellow, I can say from experience it's one of the hardest colors to keep visually correct, and professional wall painters hate it. (It worked with a pastel rather than white base paint.)

I need to do some reading on the Ward illumination type, too. It doesn't react exactly like OrenNayar.

[Rich_Art]

Stefan,
So I must be sure that with a material all the settings will not be higer than 100% I must count up the spec, color etc. and this must be under the sum of 100%?

Peace,
Rich_Art. :wink:

[Mayan]

real world materials normally go from 1% until a max of 70%. it is true that pure colors of catalogies have more, but seldom when painted on objects.

80% is possible of course, but it is an intesive color. a wall with 30% yellow is very yellow. so all that is relative to our expectations of course too.
cheers
stefan

Hi Stefan. These values are Brightness, S or V? Thanks.

[stefan]

richard,
yes all together should be a max of 100%, normal materials less...

mayan, that value for saturation is "S", i therefore also recommend always to work in HSV mode...give more natural controll than the old RGB.

cheers
stefan

[Rich_Art]

Thanks Stefan,
I'll keep this in mind with the next test. :)
I'm haveing a real great time learning Vray.

peace,
Rich_Art. :wink:

[Mayan]

Thank you Stefan,
so I suppose that Brightness should be approx. on 80 %? Brightness doesnt have an influence on color bleeding? Is Brightness the same (or something like "multiplier") as V in HSV mode? After years of using C4D I realize that I dont know basic things, especially in combination with Vray :)

[Mayan]

Also all shaders and direct colors (beside textures) in Diffuse channels should have filter with gamma 0,4545 ? Textures and shaders in Specular channels also? Thanks

[stefan]

as ther colors are not saved in in 2.2 gamma space but generated i dont think so, at least i dont amke that, still i mutliply them so that the overall material doesnt emitt more than 100% light,
cheers
stefan

[eMeL-ViZ]

Hi Stefan,

could you post a simple interior wall material in the Material Repository please? I don't know why but all my tests are failing.

Thanks,
Moe

[stefan]

a simple wall material is just plain color in diffuse like 70-80% lightness("V"),
maybe slight bump

rest is done with correct light and colorpamming

cheers
stefan

[kraphik]

cannot download the example scene.

[softimager]

http://www.cg-files.com/cgpicture/PixelStudio/VrayColorbleeding/color-bleeding-4.jpg

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/7526/bed1ub3.jpg

Okay, tell me straight.. Images above were rendered in Vray in 3Ds Max. Is it possible to get the same result in Cinema 4d? I DON'T THINK SO. Without VrayOverride material it is not possible... Well guys... You did great job by developing Vray for Cinema, thanks for that, but it still has many issues... Please don't tell me this can be done with color mapping or saturation ect.. NO.... Anyway. Keep developing and we hope we'll see some "original" V-ray results soon. Thank you.

[Emre]

Hi

All is messed up in my mind.

So I will try to sum up what I understood.

1. Use HSV color system ( I already did)
2. Sum of all material channels' S values should never exceed 100%. (what about brightness multiplier below the color system?)
3. When using textures in a channel, filter it with 0.4545 gamma
4. Do a realistic lighting. (reads too easy when you put it like that:P)
5. Use color mapping and if needed phy. cam settings to set the image to our liking.
6. Sleep well.

Is this true?

cannot download the example scene.

My tweaked scene (originally belongs to Emel_viz) link works fine, ik you mean that scene.

best of luck
Emre

[kraphik]

Hi


cannot download the example scene.

My tweaked scene (originally belongs to Emel_viz) link works fine, ik you mean that scene.

best of luck
Emre
I paid the rapidshare now it works. Perhaps they need some money first. :D

[stefan]

softimager,

the override material is not supported yet and is a cheat, i would also not use than in vraymax by the way;-)
it will come though in 1.2

your images are far from realistic. are you a registered vray owner by the way?, if yes then you can write me an email if you are unhappy.

we use the same rendercore so it is the same engine, but we are at version 1.0 and certain features come in updates as always stated.

cheers
stefan

[kraphik]

I don´t really understand some people complaining here about the Vray for c4d details. There´s no reason to compare it to the Vray max which is already in version 3 and have been developed over several of years.

In my opinion Vray for Cinema 4D is at the moment very good quality for the price. And yes when you got already rendering power in a Vray bridge v.1.5 (some options are more advanced than in max) I am very excited to see how it develops when Vray for C4D reaches larger version number.

With some options still under development people should understand this.

People out there who are still complaining, check out the tutorials out there, study hard, make renders, try different settings and if nothing helps buy Vray fundamendals learning DVD. Or at least try the demo, there´s some basic stuff for free too.
:wink:

[scanmead]

Is it possible to get those nicely bleached renders out of Cinema? Sure, just use AR. But that's exactly what some of us are trying to get away from. It looks fake and lacks the "quality of light" VRay is known for.

Now, if anyone would like to help a complete idiot? A white wall should have ? in H, ? in S, ? in V and ? in the Brightness? (The Brightness control I think is what's confusing some of us.) No Specular, no Reflection, just 1 Diffuse Channel.

My head is so far up native C4D shaders, I can't see the obvious.

[kraphik]

Is it possible to get those nicely bleached renders out of Cinema? Sure, just use AR. But that's exactly what some of us are trying to get away from. It looks fake and lacks the "quality of light" VRay is known for.

Now, if anyone would like to help a complete idiot? A white wall should have ? in H, ? in S, ? in V and ? in the Brightness? (The Brightness control I think is what's confusing some of us.) No Specular, no Reflection, just 1 Diffuse Channel.


Try Vray material converter first to convert your wall material. Perhaps it is easiest for you to make the materials in native c4d then convert in Vray mat.
This worked best for me anyway.

[scanmead]

umm.. my white walls in AR usually had 100% white with a good dose of Luminence to compensate for weak light. VRay is a totally different beastie. I'll just keep playing around with it.

[stefan]

a white wall has a white color with around 70-80 lightness i would say,
a very very white paper has about 85% brighness in diffuse.

the brightness you can conroll via brighness slighter or via the "V" value if using HSV color.

cheers
stefan

[glass.use]

softimager.

the images you posted looks like cartoon. when the floor is red, it absloutly will give some red illumination in the room.

[InTheCity]

One thing I've noticed missing in VRayforC4D, was the option in Max where you could select how much GI the material received or generated.

Have I overlooked this? Because it was beneficial for very strong colors.

http://www.project1media.com/vray/maxvray.jpg

[kraphik]

softimager.

the images you posted looks like cartoon. when the floor is red, it absloutly will give some red illumination in the room.

I totally agree. Once I saw a such red floor in a real tv studio. The illumination colored peoples face bit red. Also it should do that for white walls.
Color bleed is a real world thing.

Unless it´s intentional not to have color bleed at all.

[kraphik]

One thing I've noticed missing in VRayforC4D, was the option in Max where you could select how much GI the material received or generated.

Have I overlooked this? Because it was beneficial for very strong colors.

http://www.project1media.com/vray/maxvray.jpg

The same setting could be found from native Cinema 4D materials. I´ve not found this in Vray for C4D settings. That would be a good idea. After all it´s good to refer to max version because it´s the original. Is it possible to use Vray compositing tag for this?

[afternooncoffeeboy]

well, the first version 1.0 still got this feature. unfortunately they removed it in further patch. i hope we will get this back to vrayforc4d.

[softimager]

softimager.

the images you posted looks like cartoon. when the floor is red, it absloutly will give some red illumination in the room.

I totally agree. Once I saw a such red floor in a real tv studio. The illumination colored peoples face bit red. Also it should do that for white walls.
Color bleed is a real world thing.

Unless it´s intentional not to have color bleed at all.

Totally agree, but it was just a test, not final image... It was just an example... Person who made that render could set how much GI the material received or generated ect...


Color bleed is a real world thing.

Of course, but not too much 8)

stefan:
Well, somebody could say..: "Cheating with override mat." is sometimes better than "covering" color bleed problem with saturation, colour mapping, WB ect.... I mean... Not everytime, but in some cases would be useful. Anyway.. I don't want to start here flamewar or something... I won't compare vrayforc4d with Max's Vray anymore... C4d's vray is still "young" and of course will be growing. I wish you all the best. Regards.

[Fluffy]

Guys, try to see the view point of other people as well. Why should Vray be used for anything else than realistic and physically correct images?
It's a render engine after all, that is there to render a virtual world, and what the artist has in mind should come before anything else.

Sure, Vray is strong in areas that touches reality, renders GIs fast and so on, but still should be as useful for people wanting to "cheat" reality by being flexible enough to render their own vision of things.

So that would be great if you guys could stop dismissing Ambient Occlusion and attempts by other to bend the render output of Vray.
Sure it's not physically correct, but who cares? What's important is what the artist want his image or animation to look like, with all the speed and quality benefits from Vray.

In the end, we should all strive toward that flexibility in Vray, because that's what makes it a great render engine, the fact that it can fit any type of rendering.

I'm not saying this to get anybody mad, just saying that all people here have appreciated AR's qualities to be flexible (except GI quality wise), so you can't dismiss people's desire to get the same thing going for Vray.

I for one would love to be able to control bleeding, saturation, GI emission and reception as well as other options directly on a per material and per object basis. Sure it's not physically accurate, but offers so much more power, especially since often clients don't care about what's correct or not, and just want that white wall a little bit whiter.

[stefan]

hi all,
as i pointed out many additional thing will come over time, also i promised the gi strength already for those who like such things.

i just personally say i wouldnt use it as it destroys the light balance in an image easily. no matter if photorealistic or abstract imagery.

we are at version 1.05 and already quite powerfull, and also you will see there will come great things in addition, even some vray for 3d max hasnt yet like hair and volume light:-)

both are 2 versions of vray each with its own way or own style.
we p.e. have the c4d shader system, vray for max is based on the max system etc. thats already 2 very different things.

the power of vray 1.50, its light/gi /aa & image quality is in both, thats for sure....

cheers
stefan

[Walli]

well said and I think absolutly the same. Vray is flexible by offering many options for GI and AA. But as Fluffy said, in many cases I want to have control over all aspects. And if I want to cheat, then the renderer should help me doing that , not hindering me.

If I "only" want to have a super realistic, physical correct picture, then I also could use one of the unbisased renderers - they do a good job.
But Vray has so much more potential and not giving us those "cheat options" really would be a pitty.

[belushy]

As many users or at least some of you refer to the possibilities of Vray in max someone have to say that Vray was constantly developed for Max and the things never happened to function over night.

Stefan had this idea to port this thing for us C4d users and as far as more then one year of development, this is very good implemented
better than some oder competitors managed to do this and as far as my own experience i
t's stabile like a workhorse.

and last but not least
as Competitors of arch vis here in Vienna, Stefan and I, still often talk about his Ideas and the hard development, the testing and so on.
Here are some more features coming
but since we are a community of more than 1000 users they cannot just put some halfway tested version of it on the market.

PS
Vray needs some time to learn and working with new tools do that in general, at least for me.
Please take some time and be patient with yourself and there is no reason to have harsh words on what is not working as you are used to 3Dmax.
Working on C4D has also some good points and if you don't like it just stick to max

[eMeL-ViZ]

Hi all,

interesting things in this thread. Maybe it is not of interest what I think, but can you do me (and hopefully others) do a favour and stop comparing vRayforC4D to vRay for MAX? The only common they to have is the vRay Core. We have a completely different product here. vRay is something that gets its final stage through its integration into Software. I would like to have the OverrideMtl also. I know that this is cheating and faking. But what you have to see is, that if I want to cheat and fake I want to be able to do this. In the moment I am buying a Software me and the Software are beginning a Master - Slave relationship. I am the Master and the Software is the Slave. It has to do what I want it to do. (Including cooking Coffee and washing my Dishes :D ) I never used send and receive GI in AR. I will not start using it within vRay. But I want to be able to say okay I will use it or No I will continue not using it. But what I say also is, that this PlugIn is in an really early Stage. It works better and more stable than other Software in this Early Stage. glass.use is right. The Images Softimager posted are really unrealistic. A little bit red on the Ceiling by a red floor is okay.

The original intention of this thread was to cut it down as much as possible. I have tried a little bit more on this problem. Please tell me what you think about this and maybe I am able to help the new ones.

First a question. Stefan said that I have to control the Lightness with the "V". What happens then to the Brightness. Should it stay on 80%. I also found one of my original problems with the Scene. I always used "HSV Exponential" in Color Mapping. I have made some tests with "Exponential" only and it looked better. And if I try a little bit around I am sure that I will gett better results, especially with the highlights produced through the windows. I want to see a little bit more of the texture beneath it. A little bit of what the "HSV Exponential" does. Here are some Images.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t185/real-RayMoe/ForenBild-20071022.jpg

I see that I am getting really closer to the solving of the Problem.

Here are the Settings I have used :

Pysical camera

F-Number : 5.6
Vignetting Effect : no
White Balance : rgb = 222, 204, 157
Shutter Speed : 120
Film ISO : 200

The Tools4D Preset for Daylight Interior had a too low Shutter Speed for this Scene.

Picture 1

Colormapping
Type : Exponental
Dark Multiplier : 3.65
White Multiplier : 1.75
Gamma : 0.8
Subpixel Mapping : yes
Clamp Output : yes
Affect Background : yes
Adaption only : no

Picture 2

Colormapping
Type : Exponental
Dark Multiplier : 2.2
White Multiplier : 2.2
Gamma : 0.8
Subpixel Mapping : yes
Clamp Output : yes
Affect Background : yes
Adaption only : no

Picture 3

Colormapping
Type : HSV Exponental
Dark Multiplier : 3.65
White Multiplier : 1.75
Gamma : 0.8
Subpixel Mapping : yes
Clamp Output : yes
Affect Background : yes
Adaption only : no

Picture 4

Colormapping
Type : Exponental
Dark Multiplier : 3.65
White Multiplier : 0.4
Gamma : 0.8
Subpixel Mapping : yes
Clamp Output : yes
Affect Background : yes
Adaption only : no

The Wall has a Material with only one Diffuse Channel.

Color : rgb = 255, 253, 166
S : 34.902%
V : 70% (!)
Brightness : 80%

The Bump is a good thing but increases Rendertime. I didn't want to do this only for some tests.

It is still not perfect, but I am coming closer to it.

Greetings,
Moe

[kraphik]

PS
Vray needs some time to learn and working with new tools do that in general, at least for me.
Please take some time and be patient with yourself and there is no reason to have harsh words on what is not working as you are used to 3Dmax.
Working on C4D has also some good points and if you don't like it just stick to max

I agree with your point of view about that. :wink:

There´s no reason to blame the renderer. It´s only more complex than us general C4D users have used to have. AR renderer still needs to have the output to render as multipass. In Vray one don´t have to make so much post prod if one does not want to.

[stefan]

hi eMeL-ViZ,
nice test,

i prefer image number one...mybe i would reduce shutter speed a bit

cheers
stefan

p.s i think you mixed up dark and white multiplier in the settings:-)

[eMeL-ViZ]

Hi Stefan,

oh f**k, oh s**t, oh nooo. Yes, you are right. I have mixed them up terribly. I'll better edit this. The Physical Camera is the thing I am still working on. When I fix this too I will make a Rendering with some Furniture in it.

Hope I could help,

Moe

[kraphik]

Hi Stefan,

oh f**k, oh s**t, oh nooo. Yes, you are right. I have mixed them up terribly. I'll better edit this. The Physical Camera is the thing I am still working on. When I fix this too I will make a Rendering with some Furniture in it.

Hope I could help,

Moe

Hi eMeL-ViZ. You can try to decrease saturation value from 1.0 to 0.5 if you render in HSV exponential. The colour value in S (saturation) is not too bright when you do that.

[eMeL-ViZ]

Thanks Kraphik,

a quick Test looked okay. What I did not consider was the Texture for my Floor. It is a real light Brown. In this case it was okay that the highlights are so bright. I will try it out later with a darker Brown Laminat. Does anybody know anything about the interaction between Saturation, Contrast and Contrast Base? I can Imagine that I have to do something on the Contrast when I modify the Saturation. At least on finalRender it worked best this way. And I have to figure out which Color Mapping Values would be great with HSV Exponential. At least for this Scene. I know that I have to figure this out on every Scene. But not today. Now it's time for Dr. House. :wink:

Bye,
Moe

P.S.: Only work and no fun makes Moe a dumb boy!

[kraphik]

Thanks Kraphik,

a quick Test looked okay. What I did not consider was the Texture for my Floor. It is a real light Brown. In this case it was okay that the highlights are so bright. I will try it out later with a darker Brown Laminat.


Yes. That´s great. It´s best to think as a virtual photographer with a digital lense. Also the materials are important to tweak because the material brightness can also affect the light bouncing from it to the physical camera.
I don´t know if it helps to lower material brightness to avoid overexposure/color bleed in the rendered image. Well have to try that too.

[eMeL-ViZ]

I have tried the Material Brightness already. I don't see any differnece between this and lowering the "V". Maybe there is one but can not tell you. I have tried your trick with the Saturation to 0.5. To be honest, I will only change the Saturation if absolutely necessary, but it works fine as long as I take the White Balance to a pure 255, 255, 255 White. The darker floor achieved the desired effect. What I wanted was to see the Texture through the Highlight. It works with the darker one. There is only one problem I still have. When I use Color Mapping HSV Exponential and the values 7.8/3/0.455 the my complete Rendering is very Red. A kind of Red you see in a Sunset. This disturbs me a little. I will add some Renderings tomorrow.

C U,

Moe

[stefan]

"7.8/3/0.455"...thats a wierd setting, way to extreme.

cheers
stefan

[scanmead]

This has turned into a wonderful exercise to see the difference in the Color Mapping options. HSV Exponential has been my choice, and now I sort of understand why: it seems to take into account that dark colors bounce less light more accurately. That may not be how it's actually working, but it looks that way to me. ;)

[machmirdenlukas]

hi there,
somehow i missed this thread and was surprised.

first it´s good to know that i am not the only guy on this planet trying to get closer to achieve good results with this cool software. due the lack of vray for c4d till now i worked mainly with AR, fRender and cinemaxwell the last years and finally got happy clients and quite a good knowledge of physical materialsettings, behavior of light and quite a bit of an photographical backround.

but i always dreamed of vray because of its flexibility, its ease of use if you have enough practise and possibility of making breathtaking animations.

I remember that loooooong thread over at CGtalk, people ranting about slow and not so convincing AR-GI-solutions and begging for Vray.

and now? how to cheat again?
i agree with fluffy that it should be possible (later on), but in my opinion the priority should be to try to have control of the features we already have and which are good enough to visualize tons of good ideas.

i?m really happy with this great job stefan, renato and daniele did and i`m sure the good work will continue...

although i hope the promised materials and videos, proxies and dR will arrive soon
:wink:

[eMeL-ViZ]

Hi all,

@Stefan. Yes that's really a little bit extreme. I got these from the manual. It was only a try. :)

@machmirdenlukas. That is not about cheating. It is, like I said before, about getting what I want. And as I understood this thread, it is about getting control over the features that we have right now. We, at least I am, trying to cut down the color bleed as much as possible. But the Color Bleeding is and will stay a problem. But I also see that there is a great progress we made here.

Besides I made some tests more and finally getting closer to one conclusion. I have to stay far far away from yellow walls. They were only for tests. I am always testing under extreme environments.

C U,

Moe

[stefan]

well cheating is also "allwoed" and sometimes needed of course, vray is a very open engines and gives mayn possibilities:-)

i find this thread got in an interesting direction. it is very informative now and good test for color and tone mapping related things...

cheers
stefan

[machmirdenlukas]

Hi all,

@machmirdenlukas. That is not about cheating. It is, like I said before, about getting what I want. And as I understood this thread, it is about getting control over the features that we have right now. We, at least I am, trying to cut down the color bleed as much as possible. But the Color Bleeding is and will stay a problem. But I also see that there is a great progress we made here.

C U,

Moe

sure you`r right. it was just exhilarating for me because i had the impression that some people would prefer getting things like materialoverride before features like support for xref, proxies, dR,...

edit: i just took a look at the official vraymanual. indeed the VRayOverrideMtl parameters look promising...
cheers m

[stefan]

yes all will come, we work hard everyday like 14+hours on vray...

but you are right, also now already it is a very powerfull package for cinema4d and will as i hope bring a lot of new power to our customers:-)

cheers
stefan

[Laurent]

My client: looks great BUT what's all that red on the walls? I said WHITE interiors! Well, sir, you know, true to physics renderer red carpet bla bla bla . . . ....Listen son, I tell you I need white interiors, what's so hard about that! if you can't do it we'll use our crummy Archicad output!...
If I really wanted some set in stone no compromise true to life renderer I would have looked into maxwell, and if Vray has to be so rigid then why do we have compositing tag, shadow bias, size multiplier, oh yeah color mapping that's not cheating either and please do away with bump map, I'll only use displacement, get rid of environment mapping, no hidden lights, and what's a spot light if not cheating! use an omni light and shove a cone on that baby, place a translucide plane in front of it and you've got your real area light! and sorry guys, but from now on your favorite renderer will refuse to render spaceships, aliens and dinosaurs because they don't exist in real true to physics life.

[stefan]

i dont say it is rigid, in contrary it is very open,

still we are at the beginning and as i said all that stuff will come step by step.

in addition, to all this "feature requests" i want to say that it is not good to use this fake things if you want to render good images, you destroy the balance.
thats is just my suggestion of course, and of course is optional.

vrayforc4d gives you one of the best engines out there already with many, many good features. i suggest first learning the ones that are here...there are more then enough for highest quality. ..

cheers
stefan

and p.s please watch your tone a bit and calm down....nobody here ever said something like crazy you post here....please stay respectfull to the people that try to help you.

[eMeL-ViZ]

Hi all,

have I told you that I am near to a solution? To stay near Laurents problem look at this :

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t185/real-RayMoe/Laurent.jpg

It is not perfect but near to it. The problem is that you have to work with trial and error for the first time. I want to be able to cheat also, but in the meantime I have to work with what I have. If you believe it or not, with time you will get better results. I made this experience like many of us did. It is frustrating sometimes, but in the end you see a light at the end of the tunnel. And this will not be the headlight of a fast aproaching train. :wink:

bye,
Moe

P. S.: I will send the file from this Rendering later.

[Gecco]

If your client wants pure white walls why don't you turn down the saturation to 0? Of course with this all color bleeding are gone, but if your client wants unrealistic results... :?
Take a look:
http://iaro.3dmax.hu/kep/Vray_Sat0.jpg
If we want to control the bleeding on object basis we have to wait till the VRayOverrideMtl is implemented.

[glass.use]

If your client wants pure white walls why don't you turn down the saturation to 0? Of course with this all color bleeding are gone, but if your client wants unrealistic results... :?
Take a look:
http://iaro.3dmax.hu/kep/Vray_Sat0.jpg
If we want to control the bleeding on object basis we have to wait till the VRayOverrideMtl is implemented.

yeah, this looks cartoonish.. like if its not rendered with GI, there should be a colored reflect on the wall from any colored thing.. Thats a physical base! and theres no arguments about it.
if you want to get red of this physical feature. as Gecco said 50-0 saturation AT THE moment.. and i dont recommend it. this is an epic thread now! :lol:

[glass.use]

which is more realistic?
pick your clients choice.

100 saturation
http://www.j1jj.com/uploads/b3c14a107e.jpg
0 saturation
http://www.j1jj.com/uploads/e8d5a5c27c.jpg

if you want to get it better put it to 50-70 i think that will be good.
in the end its matter of your taste.

[eMeL-ViZ]

Hi Glass,

The (upper) one with 100% Saturation looks perfect. Especially when I think about the white walls still being white. I made eral big progress with the Color Bleeding Process, but nevet achieved this effect. how did you make the Floor Shader? I can imagine that the hardest part relies on the Floor.

Thanks,
Moe

[Tong]

second one ;-) since all this is subjective.

[glass.use]

simply.. normal box room. opened the left wall. the floor is only texture on the diffuse, 2 specualrs 1 as default only highlight, the other is .85 reflection.

camera 6f-nmbr, 100shutter, 100 iso.

colormapping 1,1,1
thats all. :wink:

[glass.use]

second one ;-) since all this is subjective.
lol see its a matter of taste. good that this is optional.

[eMeL-ViZ]

second one ;-) since all this is subjective.
lol see its a matter of taste. good that this is optional.

I agree :lol: . You opened a whole wall? Will be cold in Winter. :D but then more light from the pysical Sky can come in. That makes sense. I tried it with a Red Floor (only to stay in this extreme). It looks good.

Bye,
Moe

P.S.: I never had to render Rooms with red Floors.

[Tong]

yea all we askiing for is for additional option, like VRayOverrideMtl

[glass.use]

yes.. and they will do their best so please be patient..... and theres nobody going to render a fresh red for floor i guess like you said?! lol
good luck :wink:

[Laurent]

thanks, I have my own solution: I use a different color floor that's visible to GI but not to camera to control the color bleed.
Of course Stefan it isn't rigid, it's the best rendering engine I've used. I think that the politically correct though police has to be a bit curtailed before any wish for a bit more flexibility (available under vray for max mind you) be torpedoed down.

[eMeL-ViZ]

I am also asking for it, although I made really big progress without it. The advantage of the vRay Override Material is, that we could a red floor a very very very light red GI "reflection". Not a white, at least I wouldn't do this. That would be great. But like I said, I have learned to live without it. I works okay how it works now.

[scanmead]

My goodness! We're getting some very nice results here!

It is a matter of taste, but I wouldn't want to be around when that bright red carpet in that bright white room gave the poor end client a headache... and it doesn't look like that nice, clean render the designer showed him! :shock:

That extra, invisible floor is the workaround I use in AR. I so don't want to start that again.

[eMeL-ViZ]

thanks, I have my own solution: I use a different color floor that's visible to GI but not to camera to control the color bleed.
Of course Stefan it isn't rigid, it's the best rendering engine I've used. I think that the politically correct though police has to be a bit curtailed before any wish for a bit more flexibility (available under vray for max mind you) be torpedoed down.

I have tried this also but my floor looked terrible. The Red was much more red than before but the rest looked okay. This is a solution that has to be worked out deeper I think. How exactly did you make the plane?

[eMeL-ViZ]

In AR everything was different. There I lowered the saturation in the Material itself. I was very satisfied with this.

[the_X]

aaa. may i ask something......

which saturation did you guys talk about......

in Gi setting?

[glass.use]

yes.

[scanmead]

The Saturation under the GI tab in the Post Processing section.